Denchen Wangmo (woman) and Ugyen (man)
Interviewed in Bylakuppe on January 13, 2005
Print Version

Ugyen: I am 68 years old. I am from the same region as the woman in the couple that was just interviewed before us, from Tekrab. I was born there. Before the Chinese occupation, life was very good. I was a farmer, and I also had yaks, sheep and some other animals. I grew many things, but mostly wheat and barley, all kinds of grains. The land belonged to my ancestors, and it was passed on to me. I farmed it together with other family members.

In 1959, during the uprising, on the 10 th of March, I was not in Lhasa. But I heard about it, and heard that Tibet had been lost. I heard about it there in my place where I lived, from other people. When the Chinese first came to Tibet in 1950, people were so frightened that many ran away. The Chinese eventually came to our place. At that time, there was not yet much destruction taking place. Later, they destroyed everything. In November that year, we left Tibet. I was married at that time. I had two children. One daughter is here, she's the eldest. One, at the moment, is in Switzerland. We had two children when we left Tibet.

When we left, we came to a vast grassland, and there was so much snow. We had a very difficult time on the way. We were carrying sacks of grain with us, and we made our food from these sacks, and we slept on them too. It seemed like I was just continuously removing the snow, over and over again, all the time. It was wintertime, and my wife was pregnant at that time. We had animals with us, and traveled day and night, as much as possible. I had my relatives and parents with us too, a big family.

Denchen: A son was born on the way. After this snow incident, I gave birth to a baby boy, in a cow shed. I felt so sad at the time. I still feel so sorry about that, because we weren't in our home country, and I had to deliver my baby in a cowshed. We stayed there for ten days after the child was born. A Tibetan family owned the cowshed and let us stay there. The animals helped keep us warm.

Ugyen: The Chinese had come to our town, and we had seen them. We were aware they were there to conquer Tibet. My father was one of the important leaders in his town. We were all so frightened that the Chinese would put him in prison. They didn't, though. He was on the staff of the Tibetan government. The Chinese took away his family's valuable things and their gems from the house. They were very afraid, and decided to leave too, and we all decided to leave together.

We eventually got to the border of Tibet and Nepal, at a place called called Rou, and we stayed there for one year. We rented a house from one of the Tibetan families. We had some money and some animals, so we started selling our animals. We lived in a remote place, and we had heard that the Dalai Lama had left for India, but we didn't really know. We also wanted to follow Him. So we left everything and went. Then we heard that because the Dalai Lama had already left for India, that if we tried to go to India too, the Chinese would arrest us. So we were very frightened. We left everything we had there, except for some valuable things we could carry.

Denchen On the way, we didn't meet any Chinese soldiers. I carried the baby and sometimes the other two children. On the way, we came across many Tibetans who were trapped in different places. We stayed in Nepal in 1960 for one year. Because we didn't understand the language, at the border we just mentioned the Dalai Lama's name. The Nepalese policemen stopped us, and the women would cry, and the men were begging and the children were also crying, so they just let us go. We just repeated, "Dalai Lama, Dalai Lama, Dalai Lama." We did have faith in the Dalai Lama, so we just wanted to follow Him, and to see Him.

First we came to Varanasi, during Losar (Tibetan New Year, usually in February), and we were so happy to be in that place to celebrate. One day we met some Tibetan people who got there much before us, and they told us, "Go to Manali, there's some construction work there, and there is snow there. The place is like Tibet, and you can have tsampa there." So we decided to go from Varanasi to Manali. First, from Varanasi, we went to a place called "Botha". There were many Tibetan people there, and they had formed groups. We joined one of the groups, before we came to Manali. There was sort of a Tibetan reception center for newly arrived Tibetans, and then we got admitted, and we were quite happy. At "Botha", at that time, since we had recently come from Tibet, we had many health problems. At one point, I was about to die, and from Dharamsala, the personal physician of the Dalai Lama came. He also looked after refugees. I had diarrhea from dysentery. It was quite common. And with the road construction work, many people got sick, and some of them died.

Ugyen: In 1961 we came to Manali. And in Manali we had different groups for the construction work. Not only for construction, but most of the time we did road construction. My parents were in another group, a different group from me, so they were sent to a different place. It was a road to Ladakh that was being built, up very high and far away. Before the snow comes, you have to come back, because once the snow comes it's not possible to return. There was four months to work without snow. We also stayed in small tents.

Denchen: We didn't do any really hard work in Tibet before we came to India, because we were nomads. I did milking most of the time, and weaving also. I would make the borders on traditional Tibetan clothing, on chubas, especially the ones that were worn when it was very cold. Both of us had to work very hard on the road. The baby was on my back much of the time, and sometimes the baby was kept on the roadside while I worked. I had to take some cloth, and put the baby in the cloth, and keep it that way, and come back and feed the baby. Fortunately, the baby had no health problems, at least I don't remember any. We had to buy and prepare our own food, including lunch. And for bigger groups, the Tibetan government-in-exile later gave big tents to the larger groups, and smaller tents for smaller groups. After we were there in Manali for awhile, we got one of these tents. We worked seven days a week - there were no rest days off, not until the job was done. If you didn't go for a day, you were fined.

In 1962, the Dalai Lama came to Manali to a big town there. It was the first time we saw Him there in India, and we had never seen Him in Tibet. In Tibet, it was very difficult to get an audience with the Dalai Lama. People would have so much faith and they would come to Lhasa, and people would say that if they could just even see the shadow of the Dalai Lama, through the window, they would be so happy, just like that. But we didn't see the Dalai Lama in Tibet. In India was the first time we saw Him. We were overjoyed when we saw Him. We don't even remember what He said, but we were completely overjoyed. At that time, He was very young. He was 26 years old. He must have had problems meeting with so many people, so many Tibetan refugees.

From Manali, we came to Bylakuppe in 1969, from Kullu-Manali. During that time, many Tibetan settlements were established. So you could decide where you wanted to go. We decided to come to Bylakuppe. Some people went to Orissa, where there was another settlement. This settlement was one of the oldest. It was started in 1960. When we came here, we were given one acre for each person, per head, an acre to cultivate. And for five members, one house was given. It was given like that. And after coming here, we were very happy. And now, by the kindness of the Dalai Lama, we are still very happy. We have our own acre which we can cultivate, and we are free to do anything. We don't have to work hard as laborers now, but we worked seven years in Manali on the roads.

There were many groups that came from Manali, and we were sent to different camps at Bylakuppe, such as First Camp, Second Camp, like that. So we have many friends here who were with us in Manali. The couple you just interviewed (see interview #1) was with us in Manali. (Interpreter's note: my wife's mother was also from Manali.) We never went back to Manali for a visit. It's a good place, and we're grateful for that time there. We do actually want to go there, but it's not possible.

Ugyen: We're extremely grateful to the Western people, who have always been extremely supportive of the Tibetan people since we came into exile, especially through their help for education. I request that Western people continue to help with the welfare of the Tibetan community, for the education of the younger generation. Education is very important, and so are the crafts and the arts, the art of our country. It's important for the youngsters to keep a keen interest in these things.

Denchen: While we were working in Manali, our daughters went to school in Dharamsala. As said by the Dalai Lama recently, education is very important. Now the younger generation, the future seeds of Tibet, they have the responsibility for our nation and our culture. The older generation is almost finished now, so the younger generation of the 21 st century, the Tibetan children, they have the huge responsibility to get Tibet back through education. I agree with the Dalai Lama. Our religion and culture are very holy and very precious. Though I have no education and know nothing, I do know this. Our religion and our culture are very important. So for the younger generation, education is the key to preserving our cultural heritage, and I request all the youngsters to take great interest in education. As I'm uneducated, I cannot really advise the young people very much myself, but I do believe that education is very important.

As for the Western people, I feel that we can learn many things from them, and I also feel very indebted to Western people for their continuous support of the Tibetan refugee community, and I hope and pray that the Western people will continue with their support. I'm also grateful to you for what you are here to give, and I want to thank you because through this interview I can express my feelings.

Ugyen: I would also like to express my gratitude.

Daughter: At one time my father was about to fall from the bridge, up in Manali, but he didn't. It was very close. It was thousands of feet down from the bridge. It was the most dangerous thing I ever saw. I was only four years old, but I saw it and remember it.